In February 2020, the Oakland City Council passed Oakland’s Fair Chance Housing ordinance. The legislation was the first in California — joining cities nationwide like Seattle and Portland — to ensure that people returning home from the criminal justice system can legally live with family members and access, on their own, nearly all other forms of previously off-limits rental housing.
In this episode, Talk Policy to Me host Amy Benziger talks to housing activists Margaretta Lin and Lee “Taqwaa” Bonner about the fight to bring this legislation nationwide.
To support fair chance housing, visit fairchance4all.org.
Transcript
Noah: [00:00:00] Imagine you’ve just gotten a job.
Amy: [00:00:01] You have family members who want to give you a place to stay.
Noah: [00:00:04] Maybe you’ve finally been able to reconnect with your partner and want to build a life together.
Amy: [00:00:09] But you’ve been recently incarcerated, and although you’ve served your time, met all of your parole conditions, and have a support system ready to help you restart your life, you’re banned from all forms of rental housing, from private units to publicly subsidized housing to nonprofit housing.
Noah: [00:00:23] Seems insane, right? It’s not a big leap to understand why 73% of Oakland’s homeless residents are formerly incarcerated people in the last two years alone. Our unhoused population in California has increased by 47%.
Amy: [00:00:38] An estimated one in five Californians, 8 million people, have criminal conviction on their record. As a state with the second highest population of incarcerated people in the country, California has to figure out a way to houses individuals who’ve served their time as they reenter society and want to start a new life.
Noah: [00:00:56] This is clearly a system failure, but there are people all over California and the country fighting that system. In February of 2020, the Oakland City Council passed the Fair Chance Housing Ordinance. The legislation was the first local ordinance in California to ensure that formerly incarcerated people returning home can legally live with family members or secure a place to live on their own.
Amy: [00:01:18] Today’s podcast is about how a lack of fair housing contributes to both homelessness and recidivism for people who are previously incarcerated and the fight to bring this legislation nationwide. We’re joined by two incredible housing advocates who have played an instrumental role in this fight. Margaretta Lin is currently the managing director of Just Cities, a platform for advancing racial and social equity initiatives. She has served in government, founded multiple social justice organizations, and is a professor at UC Berkeley. Lee “Taqwaa” Bonner is a housing advocate with all of us, or none, which is a project of legal services for prisoners with children. He’s also a policy and outreach leader for just cities.
Noah: [00:01:54] This is Talk Policy To Me. Today we’re talking fair chance housing.
Margaretta: [00:02:04] So the starting place is really the movement of the sixties, the black liberation movement, the Indigenous People’s Liberation Movement, the Asian American liberation movement, the Chicano Liberation Movement, and also the Free Speech Movement. That collective national and global movement of liberation for all humanity scared the bejesus out of people like then President Richard Nixon. And so in 1971, in response to these liberation movements, Nixon declared war on drugs because he saw it as a way to target the people that he thought were America’s enemy number one, which were the liberation fighters and leaders, and for different reasons, that didn’t really take off during that time period. But fast forward to the early 1980s when Ronald Reagan became president. So he picked up that mantle of creating mass hysteria about a so-called drug problem in America. At that time period, America did not have a drug problem. So this was by intentional design manufactured. He ushered in the 1984 Federal Comprehensive Crime Control Act. What did that do? It expanded the penalties for marijuana possession, something that we are legalizing throughout the nation today. What it also did was took the humanity and individual circumstances from the power of the judges by creating these mandatory minimum sentences. And so as Michelle Alexander and the New Jim Crow Chronicles, that meant that in 1980 we had 300,000 people incarcerated in the United States. By 2000, there were 2 million people incarcerated. And then by the end of 2007, that number soared to 7 million citizens and residents of our country. And the vast majority of the crimes, so-called crimes that people committed were of drug related offenses.
Amy: [00:04:52] We’ve actually started to hear a lot more about the prison industrial complex. We’ve had incredible documentaries like the 13th. We’ve had champions in Hollywood, like John Legend, really trying to focus a light on both the problem of mass incarceration as well as the nature of how racist that institution is. It is not just that we have a problem with the prison industrial complex. We have a problem with a lack of support in reentry. So I’d love for you to talk just a little bit about that as well.
Margaretta: [00:05:24] Black people in our country are nearly six times as likely to be incarcerated than white people, and the structural root cause of that is through our intentional design around our policing systems and the over policing and the police abuse that has occurred against low income black communities around our nation in every city in America. So when people have done their time and are released from prison, they’re still basically incarcerated because job applications have this box about whether or not you have been convicted of a crime, and we see on housing applications for private rental housing, for publicly subsidized housing, for federally funded Section eight housing, every single form of housing, there’s discrimination against people with criminal records. So where are people supposed to live? They can’t even live with their family members because their family members lease agreements have clauses that no one with a criminal record can live in that housing unit. That’s why there’s this explosion of homelessness in California cities. Because of this structural barrier, they end up on the street and without stable and dignified housing, it is near impossible for people to get their lives back together, to be able to find stable employment, to be able to dream about their futures are to be able to fully reunite with their children even.
Amy: [00:07:14] So, Taqwaa, I want to bring your personal story into this narrative. I did some digging into your history and you have an associate of arts degree in social science, are certified in three electrical trades, have completed a five year electrical apprenticeship training program, two in painting programs. On top of that, you’re also a certified alcoholism and drug abuse counselor. When you were released from prison after serving 30 years in 2017, you had two separate nonprofits offer to pay for your housing for a few months, you had a job lined up, yet you weren’t able to access housing.
Taqwaa: [00:07:47] Yes. First of all, my given name is Lee Bonner, and my spiritual name is Taqwaa. I am the housing advocate for All Of Us or None, which is a project of legal services for prisoners with children. I’m also one of the policy outreach leaders for the Alameda County Fair Chance Housing campaign. After serving 30 years and two months straight inside of the California prison system, when I was paroled, I had a mandatory three month stay into a transitional facility within two weeks of me being back in society. I gained employment. So the three months went by real fast and one day coming in from work, I was told that my three months was up and I had to leave. Fortunately for me, when I paroled, I had like 70% of my family still living. So a cousin of mine who is a preacher gave me a Toyota Camry. I attempted to move in with my little sister and to someone explaining to me that I was putting her housing in jeopardy because she was under a Section eight housing. And they have a rule that no one who ever been convicted of a felony can live on the premises or the tenant will lose their housing. My oldest sister and my daughter, all of them is on Section eight, so I couldn’t live with them. So I moved in with my mom temporarily until I found out that although she live in a privately owned apartment complex, part of her agreement is that no one been convicted of a felony can live on the premises. So I would come from work. I would go visit them. I would eat with them, I would shower, and I would tell them, okay, I love you. I’m going home. And a home would be inside my Toyota Camry parked a few blocks away from their houses. I was directed to a organization called the Center for Employment Opportunities, and they told me that if I found a place to live, that they would pay my rent for nine months. And I was also connected with another organization called Shelter Corporation. And they told me that if I find a place that they would furnish my apartment. So the first thing I did is I directly applied for a apartment complex. They just built it in San Leandro, near the BART station. I went and got the application and on the application they asked me, have I been convicted of a felony? And I, of course, said yes. And I didn’t realize that I screened myself out never to hear from them again. So I got a lead on the apartment complex. I called them. They said they understood my situation and I went for an in-person interview. I paid, I believe, $25 for the processing fee for the application. And six or seven months later, they contacted me and said, unfortunately, no one with a felony or who been convicted of a felony can live on the premises. So for me, sleeping in my Toyota to hiding out in someone’s apartment. And so that’s been my plight in regards to the housing.
Amy: [00:10:36] Many people who undergo personal trauma become passionate about that issue, but not many people become an advocate for that issue. I’m curious how you turned your personal experience into passion, into advocacy, and hopefully into a home.
Taqwaa: [00:10:52] Fortunately for me, a best friend of mine became a preacher and I was a tenant at his church. And there is a beautiful young lady in there that I fell in love with her and we became married and that’s how I found housing. And only after the Fair Chance Housing Ordinance was passed in Oakland and in Berkeley, where I was hiding out, and one of the workers came out and said, It’s okay, you can get on a lease. And so that’s how I was able to get on a lease for the first time in my life.
Amy: [00:11:24] Just so our listeners are clear, even though you had gotten married, you were still not technically allowed to be living in that house?
Taqwaa: [00:11:31] Yes, although I was born and raised in Oakland. I owned a vehicle in Oakland and I had employment. I still could not live in Oakland.
Amy: [00:11:43] So I’d love for either of you to give a brief overview of the Fair Housing Initiative. I know that there have been various in different states and cities. I’d love to hear about how it has come about in California and most importantly, how it’s affected you and your life here in the Bay Area.
Margaretta: [00:12:01] The National Fair Chance Housing Movement stands on the shoulders of the work that Taqwaa’s organization, All Of Us or None, has engaged in for decades on the box in employment. But the vast majority of fair chance housing policies that have been adopted by different jurisdictions don’t really offer a genuine, fair chance for my perspective, because they may remove the consideration of criminal records from the beginning of the application process by removing the box from housing applications. But it shows up later on in the application process and in some ways creates a setup for people to go through the entire application process, only to be potentially denied at the end. So there are three fair chance housing laws in this nation that truly remove one’s past record from consideration. That’s the fair chance housing law in Seattle. And then the laws that Taqwaa and I and the coalition worked on in Oakland and Berkeley. There is no evidence that what someone did 35 years ago has any bearing on whether or not they’re going to be a good tenant today if they’re going to pay the rent on time, if they’re going to take good care of your property, if they’re going to be a good neighbor. So what our policies do is really enable landlords to have the opportunity to get to know people like Taqwaa and judge people on the merits of who they are today. It does not require landlords to have to rent to anybody. Landlord discretions don’t exist in our jurisdictions. Right.
Amy: [00:14:06] So I’m curious, Taqwaa, you’ve used your story in order to advocate for these housing policies, in order to advocate for families of people who have been incarcerated, whose entire family system has been impacted. I’m interested to hear how you believe your story has had power in this debate and in this conversation.
Taqwaa: [00:14:26] So it all started when I was in a transitional facility and I went back to my old neighborhood. And at the time I said, I’m going to go back home, which I thought was home. And those days, a lot of homeowners were losing their homes. So my mom, she lost her house. A lot of her neighbors lost their homes as well. So when I went back there, you know, it wasn’t home. When I was there, two houses had fresh paint on them. The lawns was dark green. And neighbors used to have competitions about who lawns looked the best. So when I went back to the neighborhood, all my neighbors was gone. The houses just run down, just like a third world country. And my neighbors who were still there was literally living in tents out on the streets. Quite naturally, I took on a guilt like, what have I done to my community? I felt that I had caused this problem with my drug selling some 35 years ago. At the time, I was working at Tesla motors and I had called one of members of my relapse prevention team and I said, Hey, man, I’m in a bad position right now mentally. And I was explaining it to them I went back to the neighborhood, what I saw and how I was feeling. And two days later I got a mysterious phone call from a gentleman, and a phone call went like this. He was like, Hey, homeboy, I heard your call. I heard your plea. He said, I’m going to bail you out. And he said, This is Dorsey Nunn. And he said, the current condition of your community have nothing to do with your drugs selling some 30 something years ago. He starts in that is gentrification, mass incarceration, disenfranchisement. And I’m like, man, what is all this? And so he invited me over to do a interview and they hired me as a housing advocate. And also I had to get emotional.
Amy: [00:16:00] A brief interlude here. Taqwaa’s going to speak about two individuals who’ve had a profound effect in the fight for the rights of previously incarcerated people in the Bay Area and across the nation. He just referred to Dorsey Nunn. He’s a co-founder of All of Us or None. A movement to restore civil and human rights to millions of Americans affected by incarceration. Dorsey was a leader in the Ban The Box Campaign, a nationwide effort to eliminate the required box on job applications asking about criminal records. 37 states and over 267 million people. More than 4/5 of the U.S. population now live in a jurisdiction with some form of Ban The Box. dorsey racked up over a million miles driving across the nation advocating for that dream to become a reality. The other gentleman you’re about to hear about is John Jones III, who was also formerly incarcerated, having spent over 14 years behind bars in the California prison system after being paroled and finding himself homeless. He became involved in community organizing and is a passionate advocate for affordable housing, employment, violence reduction, ending mass incarceration and racial equity. Among many other accolades, John’s received the ACLU, Paul Robeson Chapter’s Grover Dei Activism Award and was presented a proclamation from the mayor of the City of Emeryville in recognition of his contributions to the community. Okay. Back to Taqwaa.
Taqwaa: [00:17:17] Right after that, he started educating me. Then he got me in contact with John Jones III, and John Jones III had became my mentor and he took me to City Hall for the first time in my life that I would been at City Hall. The issue at that time was rent control, and it was like literally 25 people at City Hall fighting for the rights of the whole Oakland. And I said John, Well, why do people in Oakland out of here? Right? It affects everybody, especially the people in East Oakland, for sure. Right. And he was dismayed. To me, that is just a lack of education. And so that’s how my plight began. I went to learn how to educate my community in order to help rebuild it.
Amy: [00:17:58] I think the name All Of Us or None is such a powerful name, right? And it was a profound experience to really understand the successes that have come out of the very passionate advocacy of you and all of the individuals in that organization. So I’m curious, what is the fight right now and how do you think other Oaklanders should show up? So it’s not just 25 people in city hall, but it’s really people starting to understand not just the structural racism that is embedded in incarceration, mass incarceration, but the structural discrimination that is embedded in reentry.
Margaretta: [00:18:34] We’re currently working on what would be the first countywide fair chance housing law to pass in the nation. We are also working in coalition with All Of Us or None and other groups to enact a statewide law that merits that the policy terms actually honor the very name of fair chance housing. The problem is, if we have a weak state law that will actually undo and preempt strong local laws when California becomes the first state in the nation to pass a real fair chance housing law, it’s just going to be a matter of time for it to become a federal law, especially because our vice president, Kamala Harris, introduced a very tense housing law when she was in Congress as a senator. And so we’re actually embarking on creating a housing justice roadmap for local jurisdiction that would create short term, mid-term and long term strategies to be able to meet the demands of our times, which is making sure that basic human needs are addressed. It is possible the very capitalist country of Singapore provides housing for all its residents. There’s no homeless people in Singapore. If one of the most capitalist countries in our world can do that, I feel like the United States can get there.
Taqwaa: [00:20:09] You asked a question that I didn’t answer about the challenge. My first biggest challenge was my fears of talking to the public and telling people that I’ve been in prison. And not only that I’ve been in prison, but I had murdered men before. Right. And on top of that, I was sleeping in my car. I was homeless. And my mentor, John Jones III, helped me get over that fears by showing me that telling my story would help others. And then I learned that when I was talking to a decision maker up in City Hall, a city council member. And so the city council member, me telling my personal story, allowed a safe place where he personally connected to the problem and humanized it.
Margaretta: [00:20:52] He shared it publicly later, but his son was incarcerated and was about to return home.
Amy: [00:20:59] We’ve spoken about this Margaretta of the power of this story and how there’s both freedom in it for oneself as well as for others to come out and share. I personally have a family member who is in prison right now. I have a family who’s been impacted and I hadn’t shared that until I started to be in dialoge with you all. And it’s a relief, right? Like you allow people to have a sense of not being alone and then see that individuals like yourself have used their stories to actually truly affect public policy. And it really makes you believe that you can have an impact on your community and in your society. So that relief quickly turns into a sense of power.
Margaretta: [00:21:39] Yes, that’s right. I mean, there’s 1 in 31 adults in our country who’ve been incarcerated. So that’s like if you have a classroom, there’s at least one person. Right. This is about proximity. This is about our families and our communities.
Taqwaa: [00:21:59] The crime committed some years ago, you know, I really heard in my mind and since I’ve been home, she has seen me on the news. She read about me in a newspaper. And then one day she call me, she say, Son, you doing this? You doing that? And you keep doing this and you tell that story. Right? And I had a lot of good victory. And working with the Fair Chance Housing campaign. One is having a lease on my own. The other is my mentor getting a house for he had him and his son’s. Was John Jones III. Right. But the greatest is to hear myself say that you’re helping out the community and keep telling your story.
Amy: [00:22:44] While only 11% of Alameda County residents are African-American. They make up 48% of probationers. Barring their housing opportunities is essentially a permanent punishment that continues the legacy of structural racism in our institutions. This enactment of Fair Chance Housing is an inspirational story of community members standing for justice and working with policymakers to achieve it. Noah, I’d love to hear your thoughts on the conversation.
Noah: [00:23:07] I finish this episode feeling really inspired. One thing that we talked about in our previous episode on Vaccine Communications was the importance of storytelling when it comes to public policy. Taqwaa has such a compelling story to tell and is using it to lift up others in the fight for fair housing. The biggest takeaway that I have from this interview is that to solve the issue of housing fairness, we have to first identify and come to grips with the fact that it’s a systemic issue. Taqwaa, Margaretta, Dorsey Nunn, and John Jones III are engaging in the difficult but necessary work to advocate for change in an incredibly flawed and racist housing and incarceration system.
Amy: [00:23:46] Margaretta pushes her students, community, and politicians to practice love-based justice. I hope that after listening to today’s podcast, you want to lean into that love and support fair chance housing in Alameda and beyond to learn how you can support fair chance housing visit FairChance4all.org. That’s Fair Chance, the number 4, all, dot o-r-g.
Noah: [00:24:11] Talk Policy To Me is a co-production of UC Berkeley’s Goldman School of Public Policy and the Berkeley Institute for Young Americans.
Amy: [00:24:18] Our executive producers are Bora Lee Reed and Sarah Swanbeck.
Noah: [00:24:21] Amy Benziger produced and edited this episode with editing assistance from Elena-Neale Sacks.
Amy: [00:24:27] The music you heard today is by Blue Dot sessions and Pat Messiti Miller.
Noah: [00:24:31] I’m Noah Cole.
Amy: [00:24:32] I’m Amy Benziger.
Noah: [00:24:33] Catch you next time.
